Podcast: How to Use Your Brand Story to Scale DTC Profitably

Episode Summary

In this episode of the Free to Grow CFO podcast, host Jon Blair, founder of Free to Grow CFO, engages in a deep dive into scaling a DTC brand with a profit-focused mindset alongside Chris Lang, co-founder of Fresh Chile and a client of Free to Grow CFO. Chris shares his entrepreneurial journey, from struggling to find his path through multiple universities to launching a successful creative agency and several businesses, including Fresh Chili. During their discussion, Jon and Chris explore the importance of storytelling, authenticity, and creating a brand that stands for something in today's crowded market. Additionally, they discuss some strategic aspects of running a DTC brand, such as insourcing versus outsourcing production and marketing, addressing seasonality in business, and integrating personal faith into business operations. The episode provides insightful tips for DTC brands on crafting a compelling brand story, connecting with customers authentically, and strategically navigating challenges to scale profitably.

Meet Chris Lang

Chris Lang is a creative entrepreneur from Las Cruces, New Mexico. His focus on brand development and business strategy has helped launch multiple Shopify brands across the apparel, food, and wine industries, generating over 8 figures. Fresh Chile is now in the top 10% of all Shopify stores. He is working on donating over 1,000,000 meals to his community (currently 500,000).

Episode Links

Jon Blair - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathon-albert-blair/

Chris Lang - https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrislangbrands/

Free to Grow CFO - www.freetogrowcfo.com

Fresh Chile - https://freshchileco.com/

Episode Transcript

00:00 Welcome to the Free to Grow CFO Podcast

01:30 Introducing Chris Lang: A Serial Entrepreneur's Journey

04:46 The Power of Storytelling in Business

09:20 Crafting a Compelling Brand Story for E-commerce Success

14:24 Creative Strategies and Authenticity in Marketing

21:26 Navigating the Creative Process: Insights and Tips

27:13 Outsourcing vs. Insourcing Creative Functions in DTC Brands

30:02 Unlocking Business Growth: The Importance of Knowing Your Numbers

31:40 Outsourcing vs. Insourcing: Finding Your Business's Strengths

33:32 Maximizing Agency Relationships: Tips for Brands

35:20 Navigating the Challenges of Creative Agency Collaboration

38:47 In-House Production and Fulfillment: A Deep Dive

44:34 Seasonality and Scaling: Strategies for Year-Round Success

51:58 Faith and Business: Integrating Core Beliefs into Your Brand

56:31 Closing Thoughts

[00:00:00] Jon Blair: Hey, what's up everyone. Welcome back to the Free to Grow CFO podcast, where we talk about all things scaling a DTC brand with a profit focused mindset, I'm your host, DTC Blair, founder of Free to Grow CFO, the premier accounting and finance firm for growing profit focused DTC brands. Stoked to be back this week, chatting with my buddy, Chris Lang, co founder of Fresh Chile and one of our Free to Grow CFO clients, Chris, it's great to have you on man.

How you doing?

[00:00:31] Chris Lang: I'm doing well. Thank you. 

[00:00:32] Jon Blair: Chris is a good friend of mine and you CFO clients.

He also has a really unique perspective. on the entrepreneurial life. He's, in my opinion, a serial entrepreneur has had his hands in several different areas of business, still does to this day. Also a, a former agency owner on the marketing side of the world. And so I'm just really excited to, to you know, continue our weekly theme on chatting about how to scale a DTC brand and, and thinking about some of the different aspects of scaling that help, Skill with a profit first mentality.

And so Chris to get started, I'd love to run through, let have you run the audience through kind of your, your background and entrepreneurial journey. That has brought you up to this point. 

[00:01:24] Chris Lang: Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, I was, I was lost as, as kind of a individual, you know, going through college, I went through six different universities and I really struggled to kind of find what I was looking for.

Even it wasn't until I was 30 until I started my first business, which was a creative agency. And, but I, I just loved, you know, Marketing, but I didn't know it yet, but I love taking photos. I love, like, building websites and I love telling a story and that's really the basis of everything. And so with the creative agency, I ran that, you know, quite successfully here in New Mexico, worked with Virgin Galactic, New Mexico State University done work for ESPN and, you know, The outdoor channel and various other, you know, clients as well.

But what happened was, is I want to tell more of my community story. So in 2016 started Oregon Mountain Outfitters which is a local apparel brand. And with every purchase, we would donate a meal back to the Las Cruces public schools. And in 2020, we paid off that debt for all the families on the reduced lunch program here in New Mexico.

And so that's kind of how I got started with Fresh Chile is Randy kind of knew about me in the community at that point and kind of reached out to me and he was making a fresh red chile from the farms here in Hatch, New Mexico. Hatch is the chile capital of the world. And we live just 30 minutes from the farms here in Las Cruces.

And so he was making this with his wife, Carol, and in the kitchen, and they were just basically, sort of just doing it as a gift around the holidays. Cause late season is kind of September, October. And then around the Christmas time, they would give it to his real estate clients. He knew he had something cause his clients kept asking more and more for it.

And they were like, okay, well, we got to take this online. Who do we talk to? And that's kind of how I kind of got started. 

[00:03:34] Jon Blair: So when I first met you guys when I was first introduced to you guys as, you know, potentially a prospect that could work with Free to Grow CFO, I think I had an intro call with, with you and you said, Hey and then I think we got Randy on the phone, your co founder you know, shortly thereafter, and you guys said, you got to watch this video, right.

And you sent me to the website to watch this, you know, background story video about the birth of Fresh Chile. And you know, we weren't yet working together. We were talking about working together, but I remember laying in bed with my wife showing, showing the video to my wife, Andrea, and I was just like, super pumped because like, there's something about, there's something about story and understanding the heart behind.

a business that changes everything from my perspective. I if you follow my content at all, I talk a lot about how business is more than money, right? Business and, and being a person is more than business, right? And, and in my humble opinion, I, I'm a Christian follower of Jesus and I believe that, business is this beautiful thing.

That has been gifted to us by God that can make the world a better place in a number of different ways and touch the lives of so many different stakeholders. Right? I think oftentimes we think about the owners and the employees and their lives being improved, but customers, partners, suppliers, you name it, there's other people on the list.

I'm not naming. The reason I'm saying all this is because I believe businesses that provide a durable businesses that withstand the test of time. And ultimately part of durability is, is profitability, right? I don't believe you can really have a long standing profitable business without having a solid story and a solid purpose behind why that, that business exists.

You in your content write a lot about story. And like you said, you have a background in story. You had a creative agency. Just walk me through a bit about like what story means to you and why you think that's so important to an e commerce brand and their marketing mix. 

[00:05:56] Chris Lang: Yeah. You know, I'll, I'll take it a step further too.

You know, I, I believe also You know, with kind of this rise of AI that, you know, we're going to be in a creator economy, right? So, you know, just beyond the DTC we all are searching for that purpose and, and that need to tell our story. And so, but yeah, it's just, You know, story's been something that's very important because, again, I was someone who grew up in extreme poverty, on Cherokee land in Oklahoma, and had to learn to read and write and speak Cherokee as a child, and the stories that were passed down, you know, from, you know, a nation We're really inspiring to me and I just, you know, that's why they wanted to teach us is to preserve that story.

So I think it was something that's been ingrained for me since my childhood. And, and it really did the main focus of, of everything that we do is we connect with each other on our stories. And so, you know, with the creative agency, that was kind of. Really what I focused on that was, you know, it's like, Hey, you had to tell the brand story with Oregon mountain.

It was about the story of our community. And then with Fresh Chile, you know, it, it it really was about Randy, Carol and Jen and their families, you know, his, his dad's, he's got Papa salsa, you know, is that it was a recipe that they would make every day. At home, every Sunday after church. It was, you know, that's where Papas also came from.

It was, and they would just bring people to, you know, they would invite people over to church. And I had actually been to one of those mills. You know, probably five or so years before Randy and I started because his son in law was like, Hey, just come over to our house after church. You don't have to bring anything.

And here's Randy. And you know, here's, here's his dad, you know, like they're, they're, this is just, it was inspiring to kind of be a part of that. And also when you live in New Mexico, I mean, in the Southwest hash chile is the flavor of the Southwest. And so it was an opportunity to kind of really. Take a deeper dive more so than just kind of the, the client level and really immerse ourselves and the story and continue the story because what's happened is a lot of players in this industry are traditional retail focused and we really are kind of the premier DTC brand online.

For this product. And so, and again, I mean, that's how you connect with people. That's how you build your cooking group up to over 30, 000 members. That's how you get subscribers and members is because people are connecting with them, but they, we do it in a way that is very conversational. So Randy does a lot of live videos.

I mean, he might be filming in the socks and boxers. And like, people just love it because it's so real authentic. And then him and I go out to the farm and you know, we show, we talk with the farmer one on one, Hey, this is where your food's coming from. This is what the conditions are like, this is why your pre orders haven't shipped yet.

And so people really like that authenticity. 

[00:09:02] Jon Blair: I love that. You know the last several episodes of this podcast, we've talked a lot about like getting into like the numbers and metrics and like, I think there's probably a place for that in our conversation today. But one thing that I think is missing in a lot of the conversation out there about profitable e commerce or digital advertising.

What is the messaging? Right? What is the storyline? Who are you talking to? What do they care about? How do you connect with them? Because in reality, the metrics are driven by what underlying fundamentals that are deeper than the metrics are just measuring an outcome. But where does it all start? How do you think about what your ad says?

How do you think about the the content whether it's video or still image or or How do you think about what kind of creative is in your ad? And then when you get driven to a landing page or or the home page, what's the story that's being told there? What's the imagery? What's the messaging? You're you're such a great person to talk about these underlying fundamentals with because at the end of the day Thank you You have a, you have a really deep focus on that in Fresh Chile and I can see that in your advertising.

I've gotten plenty of your advertising served up to me and I can definitely see that. And so what I want to talk a little bit about is before we get into talking about, you know, real kind of core and common e comm digital advertising metrics, let's talk about some of the best practices from your perspective of how to think through like.

What is the creative that you should consider using? How do you choose the right creative? How do you think about crafting a message? Talk me through some of that. 

[00:10:46] Chris Lang: Yeah, definitely. You know, I think,

I think you have to start with, are you really in love with the product that you're selling? I mean, I know that probably sounds so true, but it truly is. I mean, there's, there's a lot of people who kind of spin up these Shopify stores and, you know, think they can kind of, And I get it too. I mean, I probably started 10 Shopify stores.

But the reality of it, the ones that I, that have been successful are the ones that I truly believe in, right? I truly believe in the story that I'm telling and and the customers relate to that as well. So, you know, the process really kind of looks like, you know, us talking to our customers, going back to like, whether it's a creative ad, you know, Or whether it's a live video is that, you know, it's going to be Randy, maybe myself, Jenna, his daughter, and, and, you know, maybe the farmer, like, we're taking people like, there's not layers.

I think that I see a lot of focus on creative in this space, and everyone's trying to look at everyone's ad libraries and everyone's trying to look at, like. You know, all the latest hooks, all the latest UGC and like, I get that. I really do. But again, it's, you know, I mean, we're, again, we're not, we're, we're focused on kind of our story and connecting that story with people who also have had, you know, that, that also that story from this region as well.

And so, whether it's the emails that we're writing to our customers, a lot of them. You know actually we'll write Randy's emails full disclosure, but it is like, you know, it is like I'm talking to the customers and Randy always says, eat more chile. And we see, you know, use it as a signature. If you order from us, there's a little thank you note, you know from Randy and Carol to join our Facebook group and join 30, 000 other members who are in our.

Making recipes as well. There's also a handwritten postcard that gets sent out, you know, 30 days after purchase, you know, from Randy and Carol. So, you know, all these touch points are really important to kind of make sure that, that our story is being told, you know, from first purchase to post purchase.

And, you know, even as we start to segment out, you know, retargeting, that again, it's like, Hey, you know, that story, we bring you back with that story. And so I think it is kind of thinking through each of those touch points, but I do believe that, you know, is this, is this really a product a brand that you really believe in that you're, are you willing to be the face of potentially, which not every operator is comfortable with.

[00:13:28] Jon Blair: I love that. So the interesting thing is that like when you can get a customer or a prospect to connect with your story, right? In my mind, it makes it more likely that like one, they're going to convert hopefully on that first purchase, but two that they're going to come back again. Right. Because walk me through a little bit about just like what are some of the what are some of the components of the story or what are some of the creative that has been surprising that is actually performing really well for you guys?

Yeah, 

[00:14:07] Chris Lang: so, you know, creative wise is, okay, there's two factors here, okay? So number one is, is, is the creative just really taking people behind the scenes where there's the farm, we take them into our kitchen, we take them into our warehouse. We take them just kind of meeting different, you know, employees of Fresh Chile.

And so we really kind of focus is that everything is authentic and real and that we're real people. Because there is a hang up online that like, is this a scam? I mean, that is, that is a big I mean, there's even those kind of comments on our videos where we're talking to people, right? Because again, people just, there is this barrier with some customers like, can I really trust this?

And so we really try to overcome those objections by making sure that everything behind the scenes is real. And we don't really try to edit a lot either. Even on the video production side, I try to leave things very raw, very unedited. And that is very purposeful because we want people to see that. The second component is also type is brand positioning.

So we had a product go viral last year because their name is 505 and they're the largest hatch green chile business on the market. And But they're out of Denver, Colorado, so and the area code used to be 505 for all of New Mexico, but now it's two area codes. There's 575 here in southern Mexico and 505 and northern New Mexico.

So I had an idea a couple of years ago, and our general manager, Robert Purtle, come up with the recipe for 575 green and red chile. People really embrace that story of like, this is the authentic stuff. This is five, seven, five it's hash chile. Like, I mean, it's also been a rallying kind of cry for, for locals here.

So, you know, it's one thing to get people all over in America to buy your product, but it's, it's also more amazing when people are wearing like five, seven, five t shirts and they're, they're talking how five, seven, five, they're getting into arguments at, you know, at different checkpoints, you know, like five, seven, five is better.

No, you know? And so it's just like, and again, It's because we're a local for local families here living in the community. I mean, you can come talk to me at the farmer's market every Saturday. I'm here in my store. I'm happy to talk to you. Randy's going to be running around Fresh Chile gift shop too. So people interact with us and they know us.

And again, so I do think it's a component of that authentic authenticity, but also sometimes you, what, what can you do from a product development to make sure your brand stands out? Mhm. 

[00:16:46] Jon Blair: Yeah. Man, when you have raving fans that are fighting for your brand, there's probably not much of a better feeling for sure.

And you know, I mean, look, it's a crowded marketplace out there, right? Like the one of the big challenges I always say for DTC. Is that there's a low barrier to entry. So like on one hand, that's an advantage. Cause like you said, you could, you could start like 10 Shopify stores, but the disadvantage is your next door neighbor could start 10 Shopify stores.

And if they wanted, they could start 10 Shopify stores that are direct competitors to all of your 10 Shopify stores. So the low barrier to entry makes it easier to get started. But it means more competition. Now think about ad channels. Think about meta Google, any, you know, YouTube. Those also have a low barrier to entry as well.

Anyone can get an account set up and start advertising. So what role you already went through an example with some of your positioning from a product development and a product name standpoint with the 575 and the 505. But what other roles do you see crafting like a compelling brand story play into differentiating your brand in a crowded.

Low barrier to entry, like DTC space. 

[00:18:01] Chris Lang: Yeah, you know, I have a good example. We just had our website, you know, redesigned by audit and we're still in that implementation phase. But one thing, and they gave us a lot of valuable information as far as like the product display pages, really overcoming those objections, you know, with the different, so you got the product photo and then we have money back guarantee.

And so we really try to overcome on the product display pages, anything that a customer may, Hey, they get to the page and they're like, okay, can I trust this? Can I buy it? And it's actually, our conversion has actually gone up from like, it was around a three point, something we've been at a 5. 5 since those changes.

So that's been a huge, that helps definitely on our efficiency side, we're really kind of one thing that I did. That wasn't in the implementation. And I started doing this on our, on our Facebook guests too, is I was like, really the fundamental issue. I think when we're trying to acquire new customers as people like, what is hash chile?

So I just, I just, what is hash chile? Who is Fresh Chile and why are they becoming America's favorite salsa company? I 

[00:19:12] Jon Blair: love that. I saw that. I saw that on, I saw that on the homepage one day when 

[00:19:16] Chris Lang: I, when 

[00:19:17] Jon Blair: I log, when I 

[00:19:18] Chris Lang: went to it, Yeah. I mean, I don't think any like CRO expert would tell you to do this, but I mean, since I did that with optimizing the product display pages, I mean, conversion has been better because now people are going to our website and there's this big bold statement at the top of the homepage above like the banner, which is not what you see on Shopify stores.

And it's just like, it's overcoming like, Oh, and there's a video instead of a banner photo. There's a video that tells a story and it's about a 13 minute long Video, but it converts and it works because people are very interested. I think today in today's world, people just want something that's true.

They want something to believe in. I think we're all looking for that. And I believe, you know, just really, sometimes we try to be this going back to like, you know, kind of the creator video, you know, ad. You know, it's just, we, we, we try to overthink it instead of just being true to who we are. And that's what we try to focus on day in and day out.

It's like, no, we're, we're just going to keep pushing on and, and, and telling the story of who we are and what we're going through and what struggles we have and what, you know, successes we have. And, and people seem to really enjoy that. 

[00:20:36] Jon Blair: I really, really love that. It's funny because like there's this connection between the authenticity that you guys are trying to communicate about you as people and about you as a company, but then there's the authenticity of the product itself, right?

Like when you think about the 575 and the 505 and it's like, Hey, Hey, this company in Denver, they're kind of like, you know, they're kind of imposters, like they're, we're the real deal, right? Like, right. We're right there right by the farms in Hatch, New Mexico. Right. And so I love that. That's really cool.

So, you know what, I would say one thing that I struggle with at times as a creator as a content creator. And, and I think this runs parallel to challenges that e com brands have with their creative is like running dry on like. new potential creative that you can use, right? Like what are some things with your background and running a creative agency and then obviously running the creative at Fresh Chile?

Like I don't want to say hacks necessarily like hacks or tips or like when, when, when you, when you feel like you're running dry or some of your clients in the past who started running dry, like what are some of the exercises, tips, hacks for like, coming up with some new potential, you know, creative and content that can be used in, in the advertising mix.

[00:22:00] Chris Lang: Yeah. I mean, it comes down to planning, you know, everything that, you know, we do takes a level of planning. So again, on, on the brand side, kind of the, you know, at least a 30 day out, you know, and to kind of share that with the team, share that with customer service share that with her, you know, the rest of the team.

So they kind of know what's going on and, you know, You know, when it comes on the, on the personal side or just working with other clients is, you know, kind of that Sunday evening, Monday morning, you know, here's Monday, you know, through Saturday content and just kind of, you know, what's your differentiators, right?

What, what makes you different? And so, you know, from, from a brand, I'll say this from like a client side on the agency side, I look at, kind of the seer method. It's just basically S is for strategy, E is for engagement, A is for acquisition, R is for retention. You know, so kind of that seer method in just kind of every day, like, you know, Monday could be, you know, strategy.

And then, you know, Tuesday's engagement, you know, Wednesday's acquisition. And so you kind of just whatever everyone has their own parameter, you know, some people like the, you know, product promotion, people type of, you know, whatever method that you'd like to do, right. It's sort of like making sure that you can create a content calendar, kind of a, Monday through Saturday type of, you know, progress there.

But you know, for the brand, I know what we're doing for the year. And then I kind of like to share that 30 days out with our team, because if I share them what we're doing for the year, it's overwhelming to them for sure. Coming up with how many products. Yeah, it can be overwhelming. So I have to manage expectations there.

But if I do it 30 days out, then people are like, okay, cool. And that's a good cadence. You know, I feel like internally for us. And the 2, I mean, and for us on. You know, on a CPG side, we have a, we have like farming seasons, right? So I mean, you have planting. Yeah and you have harvesting and so apparel, you know, we revolve around collections this spring and this fall collections, you know, so again, everyone kind of knows their seasons and their business and what that looks like.

So kind of planning accordingly, but there is, I would say though, Just on the last bit of this, it's like you kind of have to walk away from your computer sometimes. I think just grabbing a pen and paper, pen and paper, find a quiet place, you know, wherever you can do just to get no distraction and just write it all down first.

That really helps you because you'll start doom scrolling on Twitter if you try to plan it out in front of your computer. 

[00:24:37] Jon Blair: Dude, that's so funny. And like more and more than I'm finding is in my own content creation for Free to Grow CFO and for my own personal brand. I'm actually starting to get to the point.

I don't know if I'm becoming like a crazy writer. And by the way, like, I'm no, like I'm, I'm no, like big name influencer or anything like that. But, I'm finding that I come up with my best ideas, not even with pen and paper in my hand. Like I have to walk outside and then, but have either a note in my.

You know somewhere where I could write it down really quickly in my phone or I have even started doing these morning walks There's an airport little Private airport 10 minute walk from my house like walking I'm sitting on the bench But having my little notebook with me and like for some reason When I'm out in nature 

[00:25:26] Chris Lang: and I 

[00:25:26] Jon Blair: have like a longer range visual perspective where I'm not looking at what's right in front of me, but I'm looking at what's around me, which when I'm in a room, even if I'm not in front of my computer, I'm like so zeroed in on what's around me.

Right. And I come up with my best ideas. Obviously I can't write while I'm walking, but I'm like, Oh, the topics like just start firing off in my brain. You know it's a weird thing. Like I'm also a musician. So I've been writing. music for 25 years. So like, I know something about being like kind of a, you know, in, in my own terms, like kind of like a crazy creator and like, you never know when the idea is going to come to you.

And it always comes in like very, on, it always comes in an environment or at a time when you least expect it. Right. But all that to say that like there is something to, the, the, the creative work right in, in advertising and marketing, it's not done in the same setting or the same mindset as like when you're working on other areas of your business, right?

It just, it just, it isn't, it's not the same as when you're sitting down in a spreadsheet and crunching metrics. It's, it is definitely a different mindset. But so one thing I want to, there's a few things you've been talking about that are making me think of a couple other areas of scaling and DTC brand profitably that I think you can provide some really solid advice on.

And the first one is outsourcing versus insourcing when it comes to the creative function within your DTC brand. And as a fractional CFO for DTC brands, this is something I get asked about all the time. Like what areas of my marketing team should I have in house DTC? Versus outsourced and there's something I learned when I was on the founding team of Guardian Bikes that we made a huge mistake we outsource the wrong parts of our marketing first and in in particular we outsourced the Honestly, like the creation of our core message Which 

[00:27:34] Chris Lang: right 

[00:27:34] Jon Blair: I realize in hindsight was a bad idea because why because we knew our customer We knew the problem that we solved.

We knew the mission that we were on as a company. The the agency didn't know that now. Certainly they can help us craft it, but the core of it haDTCome from us. So that, that's the example I'm setting the stage with. What are your opinions for, scaling DTC brand, how they should consider outsourcing versus insourcing on the creative side of their marketing function?

[00:28:10] Chris Lang: Yeah. You know, that's a great question. You know, I spent last week with Randy going through a spreadsheet and, and honestly, like going through and cutting a lot of like software apps, you know, maybe vendors, And really trying to kind of free up some marketing and because again, it can kind of get away from you if you're not careful.

Right. And so, you know, what our marketing team looks like at Fresh Chile is me. I to kind of handle everything in house. I handled the emails, I handled the meta ads to Google AdWords. You know, I handled kind of the video production, you know, if we're doing videos on the farm, I'm just doing calf cut, throw some captions on uploaded to YouTube.

I've had some help in the past, you know, some internal video. Editor design. You know, but kind of going forward, it, it's been me in the past and going forward, it's kind of me for now, you know, for this year as well, because we have to run efficiently and, and marketing, you're already spending so heavy on meta.

Mm-Hmm, that it's, it's, it's really hard. But again, I mean, I just have, I had the opportunity of, of being an agency owner, so I learned a lot of skills kind of beforehand. And kind of running my own brand previously, where again, I kind of look at it as. I could probably do better on my email. By hiring an outside agency, and I could probably do better on my Facebook ads, but it's just, it's a fine line of kind of that.

So seven figures, the 5 million to 10 million, you know, the, the 20 million, at what point do you kind of. Let go and, and, and kind of, you know, find those right partners. And I believe in having the right partners you know definitely, you know, on the CFO side, I mean, that's where Free to Grow is really important to us because again, it is a part of marketing.

I need to know what my efficiency is. I need to know what numbers I need to hit. And so when I, when I really think of our marketing, it's like, Hmm, I'd rather invest in a good CFO, and make sure that our bookkeeping, that our accounting, Numbers are accurate before I try to start scaling again and maybe trying to find vendors, that, you know, that, you know, maybe great vendors.

But again, we'll just continue to, you know not be efficient, you know, as we're kind of. Really looking forward to being in a position and the numbers, you know, just to be profitable. And so I think that's where, like, I know that wasn't really maybe the direction that, you know, you were heading with the question, but that that's true.

That's where I'm at today is if I can kind of shoulder, you know, those responsibilities I'm going to do that because, as you grow a business past seven figures, it's a numbers game. For sure. You got to know your numbers. 

[00:31:22] Jon Blair: Well, there's a couple of things you brought up there that I wanted to kind of like summarize for the audience.

One is when you're talking about outsourcing versus insourcing, whatever that function might be, you, you very clearly were talking about the internal strengths and competencies versus internal weaknesses, right? And like for you guys, you have a strength internally on the marketing front because of your background, right?

Not every brand has that. The, the ones that don't have that, they, they need to outsource to Their internal weaknesses, right? Right. Brought up an internal weakness that you guys did have, which was on the accounting and finance front. And so you chose to outsource that to Free to Grow CFO. And so like, just in terms of like advice for listeners, when you're thinking about outsourcing and insourcing a certain function or task or project, one of the many considerations is.

What are you strong at internally versus what you're weak at internally? And, and do you need to bring in some outsource help from the outside to help cover a weakness? The other thing is understanding your truly understanding your costs, the cost benefit of outsourcing versus insourcing. Right. And one thing you mentioned, Chris was like, Hey, yeah, at some point you are going to need to get some help on the marketing front.

It can't be all you. But you want to understand the costs and the profitability of the business first and really make sure you have like high fidelity and a clear understanding of what that is so that you can understand the implications and the impacts. on more help, right? And so you guys chose the sequence bringing on Free to Grow to help with accounting and finance.

So you could get that high fidelity and then based on that, make decisions downstream of what, what you bring, you know, in house or what you outsource to get you guys additional support as you continue to scale. I want to ask you specifically from your days of the creative agency, you know, if we've got someone listening to the show today, who's like, Hey, I'm, I'm considering a creative agency or maybe the creative function within my performance marketing agency, but it's it caught, it's going to cost me a few thousand dollars a month and I want to make sure I get the most out of them.

What are suggestions you have for what a brand comes to a creative agency and already has prepared to get the most out of the relationship with outsourcing creative? 

[00:33:52] Chris Lang: Yes, I think people do have to work with agencies because a lot of people don't know how to tell their story and, you know, or kind of like really explain their product and they really need, you know you know, very talented people to kind of help them, you know, with that process.

And so I would say. You know, kind of two things. One, if you're working with them, make sure that you get your story told. There's nothing like a spotlight video. You will not regret, have a spotlight video about your business, who you are, what you do how it started. I think that's sort of the number one asset.

Whenever you work with an agency is just like, Hey, let's, let's get this video film, let's, let's really tell our story. And then secondly, is like, you do need to kind of chop it up. And we do this all the time, 15 to 30 seconds, you know, you, you need to have some sizzle, you got to have some highlights, you got to like really show how your product works and, and it varies, you know fun 16th way and there's a time and place for that, you know, just like we were saying earlier, I mean, but make sure your stories first and then you, you will need those other assets for your, your creative.

[00:35:02] Jon Blair: What, when you were running a creative agency, what were some of the biggest roadblocks when you're working with a client and you're like, man, I know I can help them, but I'm getting blocked. Cause I'm. Not getting something that I need, right? Cause obviously it's a collaboration that the agency, I think one of the biggest issues I see, let's just say marketing agencies in general, and that could be any type of marketing agency.

The biggest issue that I see with earlier stage brands is thinking that an agency will be a silver bullet. You can bring them in and, and they will fix marketing for you. And in reality, yeah, they should help guide you on certain things, right? And they should be experts at executing and hopefully experts at some aspect of the strategy, but you have to collaborate with them.

It's your company, right? It's your product. It's your ideal customer. What are some of the big things that used to get blocked on because there just wasn't the right kind of collaboration or information that was coming from the brand? 

[00:35:58] Chris Lang: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I think there's some, there's some core issues always when you're working with clients is they don't really listen sometimes.

I mean they, they, you know, you're coming, you're coming to them for kind of like this outside perspective and it's like. You know, they're, they just kind of have an idea of what they want instead of what they need. And, you know, I think that's something for brand owners is like, these people are very talented.

They work with some of these brands for a reason. They've had success. You obviously looked at their portfolio is, you know, you need to listen to them. I think that it's kind of a kind of step one, you know, I think step two is Understanding that good creative costs money, budgeting wise, like we all want to be efficient, but at the end of the day, you kind of get what you pay for and or what your budget allows for.

So kind of make sure you have the budget allocated in a way that you're going to get good results. And so those are kind of the 2. You know, biggest obstacles that, you know, we had, you know, while running an agency. And, you know, I have examples, you know, over and over of, you know, the client wanted to go this way.

We wanted to go this way. And finally, when we went that way, it had a lot of success, you know, but again, it's because as marketers, this is what we think about, like, this is what we study. This is what we live for. Like, you know, this is why people are on foreplay or inside ad libraries or, you know going to grocery stores and just walking the aisles and looking at, you know, labels we just live for.

We, we, we think about this deeply. It's not something where it's like, Oh, you don't know, like you're just no, we, We, we really tried to, you know, understand and study the market. And, and you know, and I think for me, that's, you know, making that jump to a Shopify brand owners that had a lot of conviction and what I thought would work and what wouldn't work.

And you know, and that's kind of why I'm in the position I'm in today is, is because I was able to double down on those convictions. 

[00:38:28] Jon Blair: I love that. I love that. So there's a couple of things that I've seen come up fairly frequently with Free to Grow CFO prospects and clients that I've talked to, which is like this challenge, this trade office.

Again, it's an outsourcing versus insourcing decision. Doing your own production and fulfillment versus outsourcing it. Fresh Chile does their own production and fulfillment in house. Walk me through some of the things that come to mind when I ask, like, what are the advantages and the drawbacks to production and fulfillment?

And fulfillment being owned in house for you guys. 

[00:39:12] Chris Lang: Yeah. The reason why we got into film fulfillment is because the company was starting to grow and the co packer couldn't keep up with this and would have to fire us or fire other clients. And so we had to make that decision to, you know, find a facility and really kind of build out a kitchen, a bottling line, a shipping department, warehousing racks.

And we did that, you know, and, it was a way for us to really control the quality. And I don't know if that necessarily would be the case for every brand. You know in apparel there's, there's two, three brands of t shirts that you buy. And that's really it. Like, there's no competitive advantage from a quality standpoint, for like 90 percent of, you know, t shirt sales.

Right. And so, yeah. But that's where it's like, we knew that we had to have the quality, the way that we wanteDTCreate a better product on the market meant that we had to do our own manufacturing. I mean, we go from farm, we roast it, you know we'll chop it and then we cook it and we bottle it, you know, all within 24 to 48 hours.

And so that's, again, that's where the name Fresh Chile comes from is very fresh. Fresh all natural product. That's a hundred percent certified by, you know, Ashley farmers. And so, you know, that was important for us now. What's great about that is that we are more nimble. We can come up with product development faster.

We can drop new products. We can keep it exciting. We can, we get a, you know, order from Albertsons or central market. We can kind of, you know, cook on demand. So there are like a lot of benefits of that. And then, you know, also the shipping is like, we kind of understand quality control there, you know, we, it took a lot of light trial and error, figuring out shipping and pull.

I mean, this is glass jars with, you know, food product in it. So, you know, breakage and very expensive lessons to learn that again, we were kind of learning on our own. So, It isn't a very expensive endeavor. I wouldn't say that it's necessarily for everyone. There is, you know, there is an issue where we do kind of control our own destiny.

And that's a good thing because we can kind of control our costs better. But again, it does make sense for some brands to work with the manufacturer to work with the 3PL. And they're basically like marketing agencies, right? Like they're, you know those brand owners are, you know, there's three to four of them, whereas our overhead is a lot higher.

So our, you know, our monthly overhead is higher as well. So we got to meet certain sales projections to make sure that we keep our kitchen going to keep our shipping going and other people inside of your business as well. So I would say that, you know, One of the biggest advantages is that nothing's stopping us, you know, from a, getting the 10 million on the production side.

Other than ourselves at the moment. And then the, you know, whereas, you know, if you're working on it with a manufacturer, you know, overseas or you're working with DPL, there are limitations where you might have to, you know, wait six months before you can scale. 

[00:42:30] Jon Blair: Yeah. So there's there's a concept that I've talked with you guys about a lot and that I've talked with.

Well, we as CFOs in the space have to talk about this with any one that is any brand that's considering or is, is already manufacturing in house. It's the concept of what's called operating leverage. Operating leverage is the fancy finance term for high fixed operating costs. And so when you're producing your own product and fulfilling your own product, because those operations are in sourced.

You have higher operating leverage or in simple terms, higher fixed monthly operating costs than the brand that outsources that to a three pound three PL and contract manufacturer. Now the downside or the drawback is as Chris mentioned, you have to hit a higher revenue number. to break even. But the advantage is once you pass your break even point, if there's capacity left in your operations, you start dropping a lot more profit of every dollar beyond your break even point straight to the bottom line.

Whereas a brand who has converted Their fulfillment and their manufacturing to a variable cost, a per unit cost for finished goods and for, you know, each unit shipped as they pass their breakeven point, they're still dropping the same number of dollars per order to the bottom line. So again, the, the, the disadvantage or the drawback.

Is you need to hit a higher revenue and contribution margin dollars to break even. But once you pass that break even point, if you have more capacity left in your manufacturing, your fulfillment operations, you can start becoming wildly profitable. So that's just a little like finance tidbit for anyone listening in and like thinking through.

Potentially that in source versus outsource decision. There's one other thing you've mentioned a couple times, Chris, that I want to touch on related to scaling a brand profitably. It's seasonality. You guys, like every, we work with about 25 brands. All of them have some component of seasonality.

There's only one or two. That don't have a ton of seasonality because they're more like they're like supplements. It doesn't matter what time of year it is. If you're a raving fan of that brand, you're buying them all the time. But besides that. Every other consumer brand we work with has some component of seasonality.

You guys have actually an extra layer of seasonality challenge because there's a seasonality on the production side that is quite accentuated. You know, there are some brands we work with, especially like apparel brands, they might manufacture in China. There's definitely a seasonality because of things like Chinese New Year, right?

And the country shuts down. So there's, there's seasonality to production, but you guys. You have a product that is the staple is Hatch chile. There's a harvest that happens at the same time every year. And to go along with the brand promise that you guys have of like, you know, this fresh authentic hatch chile salsa from the hatch, New Mexico region.

You guys have to crank through a lot of production all at one time. Walk me through just some of the challenges to profitability that you guys experience on the seasonal nature of the production side of your business. 

[00:45:49] Chris Lang: Right. So one reason why a company like us hasn't existed in this space is because of the seasonality.

You know, the market consideration for this is usually August and that's when all the grocery stores kind of bring out the roasters and they kind of start roasting for the public. And this is sort of happening now, you know, from Southern California all the way to Texas. So it was very regional, you know, throughout the Southwest.

And, you know, that's also been a big question that I've kind of like, how do we make this a year round business instead of, you know, sort of a August through December business? Because that's the thing, like you. You kind of crank it up around July, August. And then, you know, obviously with Q4, there's a lot of like gift giving and just, so it does really well for six months of the year.

So what we started to do is we, we started working on product development. We currently have about 27 different products. We'll end up, you know, past 30. And I don't know if anyone would really recommend doing this but it has worked for us because we've been able to come out with a 5. 75 lineup.

Where it, again, it is a more of a finished product with spices and seasonings and it's not raw chile. So we do our fresh products, you know, kind of in season where it's just kind of raw green chile, raw red chile. We have about a handful of those products that we have to do fresh. But we have barbecued, we got mustard, we got ketchup, we got cocktail sauce.

We have other, you know, pop is a mama salsa again those are products that can be done out of season and that we try to focus on January through July. And it's also giving our customers a way to, you know, make sure they have hash chile for lunch. Flavor, but, and their mustard or in a ketchup. And then where that recurring subscription or recurring membership is, you know, higher throughout the year.

And, and again, it's kind of a long play game. But it is something that. We have done intentional. And again, we kind of doing this, the small batch, and we actually have this new functionality that we're custom coding with the developer right now. Where when we do our pre orders for our small batches, they'll be able to pre order the kettle.

So kettle number one, kettle number two, kettle number three, and really kind of just show that, you know, we, we do focus on the quality, even if it's not in season it is a small batch quality that we. Are you know, making sure that the customer has the highest level of satisfaction 

[00:48:22] Jon Blair: and you're making me hungry and I keep thinking of that video of Randy with I think it's with a hamburger that he's like pouring pouring just like a big old thing of salsa on and just like eating it like that.

I'm getting hungry right now. I'm a huge salsa junkie. I mean, like, probably unhealthily. So but because of the things that I eat with the CEO with the salsa on top of, but man, yeah I love that, you know, so it's, it's interesting because again, going back to the beginning and middle of our conversation, You're talking about this authenticity and this connection to real people through and through, you just mentioned like the kettle, right?

Like you can get kettle one 

[00:49:07] Chris Lang: and 

[00:49:07] Jon Blair: kettle two. And like, I mean, it's just like it, there's something real here. And, and I will say this, like. This isn't a side, this has nothing to do with scaling a brand profitably, but it's, it's like a core belief of mine. The, unfortunately in the food world, especially here in the U S, but anywhere that's like you know, a first world country, food product development and manufacturing has become incredibly impersonal and it has become very much about cranking out low cost foods.

Right. That are high margin and that have like a high shelf life. And so what do we have is we have foods that are like have unnecessary amounts of salt and sugar and preservatives. And quite frankly, I know it's cause I have three little kids. I have a five year old, a three year old and an 18 month old, and they're all addicted to processed food.

And it's honestly. It's not something I cared much about when I was younger. I was raised on processed food, but as I've gotten older, I've done some reading on it. And like I realized now, now I don't think that large food manufacturers are evil. There are some people who live on that side of the world. I just think it's.

They've done that because that's what scales, right? Right. You have a General Mills or whoever. Those processes scale, right? Automated food production with long shelf life. It scales and it's profitable. Now we've got companies like Fresh Chile that are telling you what kettle Your product is made in and trying to make it very personal.

These are real people. These aren't like just these large food brands where your, your food is being made. Who knows where with what in it, because it's going to sit on the shelf for and still be okay once you buy it. And so I love that. I think there's this there's absolutely in this, in the food and Bev CPG world, there's this rise of like brands that actually stand for something and brands that like, don't just stand for something, but are like truly authentic and like the quality.

And the story behind it are, are it just as important, if not more important than the product itself. And so, this has been really, really cool. This conversation has been fascinating and I think it's going to be super helpful for so many of the the people listening before we kind of land the plane here, you know, I want to ask, I always like to end with a personal question.

Sometimes I ask someone about. You know what they're reading or listening to or they're loving. 

[00:51:40] Chris Lang: Yeah. 

[00:51:40] Jon Blair: I'm going to ask you about your faith because you and I are both you know, men of Christian faith. And I was on a podcast several months back and a guy asked me at the end, totally caught me off guard.

I don't even know if he's a guy of faith. He just said, Hey man, you're, you're, you're a man of faith. I know that. How does that play into your business life? And I was kind of like, Whoa, He didn't tell me he was going to ask that, but it's actually my favorite question that I've ever gotten being on someone else's podcast.

So I'm going to ask it to you. You're a man of Christian faith. How does that play into your daily life? And how does that bleed into your life as a business owner? 

[00:52:19] Chris Lang: Yeah, it's, it's number one. You know, I kind of look at life as five areas, faith, family. Fitness, finances and focus and faith is kind of the constant driver of all of it.

I'm very fortunate to have a partner Randy, who is a man of faith. Our gender manager is a man of faith, Malachi, who runs our inventories, is a believer. We have so many believers in our organization. We start our meetings with prayer. We come to God with the challenges that we're, you know, facing with prayer.

And you know, Randy's a big part of that. You know leading, you know, and believing and it's inspired me. I think too, like can't get it twisted. Like what we do is very hard. Like we, we, we carry a lot on our shoulders and. I think kind of the biggest, you know, test that I'm constantly having to face is trusting in God and trusting that it's, you know, that we're going to make it to season.

We're going to make it to next season, that we're finding the right people to kind of help us understand how to run our business, that, you know, it could be as simple that we get enough water for the season that, you know, we had a record level of heat last year. You know, which kind of, you know, shortened our season and we haDTCancel some pre orders because of it.

And so, you know, faith is, is, is who we are and we don't try to hide it. We actually, I'll share a story with you. Several years ago we had a, we had a big company look to acquire us. Now, you know, it would have been a seven figure Payday with stock options. And I was on the phone with Randy and them and they're like, well, we have a couple of conditions.

And this is specifically for Randy at the time, but you can't say anything political or religious over the next five years on your social media. And we both walked away and Randy gave his reasons. And when it came to me, I was like, you know, I believe in free speech in America and you know, we are men of faith and we're going to thank the Lord, you know, and what we do.

So I know a lot of people will say you take that money every time. And so we didn't we have, we know that God has something else in store for us. And so we're, we're thankful and grateful. 

[00:55:05] Jon Blair: I love that. You know what? Simply said from my perspective, Fresh Chile, a brand. And a company full of people that mean something and stand for something.

Through and through all aspects of the product and your guiding principles as people and as a business. So I love that. Before we close down here, where can people find more info about you? Cause I think you have some great content. Where can more people find where can more people find info on you and on Fresh Chile?

[00:55:38] Chris Lang: Yeah, all the social media handles for Fresh Chile or at the Fresh Chile Co. And then for me on Twitter, it's that's Chris lane create. And on LinkedIn, it's Chris lane brands. And again, I just try to take people behind the scenes daily of what's going on. I share our numbers, good and bad today will not be a great, but it'll be an honest take of what was really going on and this in the last seven days.

[00:56:05] Jon Blair: Awesome. Well, Chris, I really appreciate it. Appreciate you taking us behind the scenes of your story, the story of Fresh Chile. You know, for everyone listening, look, we didn't talk about a bunch of metrics and stuff today related to scaling a profit focused DTC brand, but let's be honest with ourselves here.

The messaging, what your business stands for, your brand story. If you do that, well, It is one of the components that will help improve the metrics and help drive profitability. You need to have a solid story. You need to know what your brand stands for. You need to know who your customer is and you need to know how to connect with them with compelling creative.

So that's all for, for this week. I hope this was helpful. If you want more helpful tips on scaling a DTC brand, follow me, DTC Blair on LinkedIn. And if you're interested in learning more about how Free to Grow can help your brand scale alongside healthy profit. Cashflow and confident decision making.

Check us out at freetogrowcfo.com. Until next time, scale on.